5 Keys to Understanding Scripture
The meeting welcomed Jeremy, its first attendee of the month, and discussed the Cursillo Weekend, a new rosary ministry for the elderly, and local announcements. The theme for the month was interpreting Scripture, emphasizing the importance of understanding the author's intention, the unity of Scripture, the Church's living tradition, and the harmony of all of God's revelation. The group also discussed the four senses of Scripture: literal, allegorical, moral, and anagogical. The conversation touched on addressing non-Catholic perspectives on Catholic traditions and the role of the Church's authority in interpreting Scripture.
MC: Adam Hohn
Presenter: John Domin
Deacon: Rick Freedberg
Brought to you By: The Knights of Columbus
Audio Trasnscription
participantOne:(0-19440): And welcome everyone to the second Saturday for core for the month of August. Is anyone here for their very first core meeting? Welcome Jeremy. So Jeremy was, he was...
participantOne:(20960-50260): welcomed, asked by Joseph. Many Saturdays. Many Saturdays. He was persistent. So there might be somebody that you know that maybe you've been persistent on asking and they haven't quite got him over the hump. Jeremy's a perfect, finally getting him here. So do not give up on these men. Keep inviting, keep inviting. Are there any local announcements? No, no, no.
participantOne:(50940-78960): Maybe we can get to two people. For those who don't know me, I'm Brian Fetzer. How many men in this room have been to the Cursillo Weekend? Raise your hand. About half of us. Okay, for those who have been, I'm inviting you to become an instructor this year. The weekend is on the 25th to the 29th. And for those who have been instructors already, thank you very much. In addition, those who haven't been to Cursillo Weekend, it's a weekend of prayer, study, and action.
participantOne:(79320-108600): And if you are looking to get closer to God, I can tell you, after that weekend, you will get closer to God. And if you're not prepared for that, please wait another year. If you are, we've had several individuals who actually made major life decisions after it. And you can talk to the men in this room who've been there if you want more information about it. I have a sign-up sheet for your name, phone number, and email if you want more information. Thanks, Brian.
participantOne:(108880-130840): Anybody else for local announcements? Yeah, Mark. Last week, in reference to a new service to the elderly in our community, we're starting a rosary ministry at the Jackson Community Medical Center. So these are just reminder cards. Take one if you're interested. The first one will be next Saturday at 930.
participantOne:(131220-140640): We gather the Catholics at this center into the room right next to the chapel, and we do a group rosary, and then we get them back to their room.
participantOne:(140740-174799): So we get to around 930, we'll be done by 11. It would be a great way to bring joy to a person that's at a later stage of their life and sometimes very isolated. So to be there with them, for them to receive some attention and have someone to pray with them, it's a very worthy cause. It's a corporate act of mercy to help those that are aged and isolated. So please consider it for next Saturday. Thank you. Thanks, Mark.
participantOne:(175120-205220): Any other local area announcements? Joseph. Well, there's the August 15th. Were you going to mention? Yes. Good. Yes. So, Matt, go ahead. Schools are coming back in session, so just keep all the teachers and staff and students in your prayers as we all go back to work and back to the grind.
participantOne:(205960-245280): A lot of families are coming prepared, some aren't. There's a lot of ways to help in the community. So just support them as you can and keep us lifted up in prayer. Thanks, man. So man, this Friday upcoming is a feast day and a holy day of obligation, the Feast of the Assumption. So make sure you're making plans to attend mass that day. Anybody else? The Right to Life people are gonna start putting out their banners,
participantOne:(245540-278960): So if anybody is willing and able to help put those banners up, get old Kathy Potts. Thanks, John. And now I'd like to go ahead, Joseph. Just remind everybody what CORE is. Oh, CORE. So the first three Saturdays of every month, we're here in the basement of St. Mary's Church for prayer, formation, fraternity. CORE is Latin for heart.
participantOne:(279200-304560): and St. John Henry Newman, who's now doctor of the church, St. John Henry Newman, his saying was, which means heart speaking to heart. And that's what we're trying to do here. Try to get men with other men to talk about their faith, family, and other things going on. Engage in prayer. Engage each other in the church community. We are a community.
participantOne:(305680-337680): we're meant to lift up the church. We're supposed to be the right arm of the church in the best representation of Christ as we can be. So just so for those who weren't here the last week, Pope Leo does know about CORE, is very excited about the CORE initiative. So let's do our best job to keep that praise going from the Holy Father.
participantOne:(338000-386180): So without further ado, I'd like to welcome our speaker who just spoke about a couple minutes ago, John Domeen. Okay, you all got handouts, right? Yes. Okay, the theme for this month is Scripture. It occurred to me that, especially after last week's talk, there's a lot of people that might be a little intimidated by trying to study Scripture. So I've got laid out here five ways to interpret Scripture. Okay.
participantOne:(386820-420400): And you see the outline right there. I don't because I don't have my glasses on. Five keys to interpreting Scripture. First, what's the author's intention in writing the Scripture in the first place? Okay, who's the author of Scripture? God. God authored all the Scripture. Does that mean he said, hey Moses, get a pencil and paper and write down what I tell you?
participantOne:(423740-456340): Is that how it's done? No. No. I hear a no. No. And some mumbling. That's correct. God likes to work with us. He likes us all to work as family. Everybody here knows that, right? Crickets. Yes. Okay. All right. Yeah, he likes to work with us. And so what he's done in giving us the scriptures is he's...
participantOne:(457660-494680): gotten with certain individuals who haven't had a little expertise or experience in one area or another and in prayer with God this individual feels the Spirit moving him to write this stuff down and in prayer God makes sure that this person really does know what they're talking about because it's it's not about them It's about what God says. So who's the author? Who's the intended audience is next? And
participantOne:(496220-533640): Intended audience in general is everybody on the planet. More specifically, the general audience is his church. That's gone on for a couple, three, four, five, six thousand years now. It's been to his church, his people. More specific than that, we have tomorrow, our second reading comes from Hebrews. All right, so that would be to the Israelites. Yes, no, what?
participantOne:(534400-570940): to some of the Israelites actually because the letter to Hebrews was not sent to Jerusalem. The letter to the Hebrews was sent to the outer reaches where all those heathens lived. Right? So this letter is to the Jewish people but it's about them how they're supposed to act, what God likes them to do when they're out there in the Gentile country. Things changed with the coming to Jesus.
participantOne:(571140-603680): Hebrews addresses some of that. So when you're interpreting scripture of Hebrews, you want to keep all that in mind. And you want to talk about it with God, i.e. pray. That's the first phase in the long list that I got you out there on your paper when it comes to interpreting scripture. And you can do as little of it or as much of it as you want. But eventually, to get a fuller understanding, you're going to find
participantOne:(604160-632060): In retrospect, you have done all these things. Number two, unity of Scripture. Well, that pretty much follows. God being the author, God's not going to lie. Actually, he can. So, whatever he has taken down in Scripture is going to be consistent with everything else that's in Scripture that God said.
participantOne:(632280-660840): It might not be immediately obvious. It might even on the surface appear to contradict something else that he said. But it's all going to be consistent. So far so good? All righty. We're on a roll. Number three, and this is more to us than the Catholic Church. Church's living tradition.
participantOne:(663280-694220): You all probably know that when Jesus ascended to the Father and sent the Holy Spirit to his apostles and disciples, we didn't have a New Testament at that time, right? Right. Okay, all we had was Old Testament, which was fine. But the New Testament came about a couple hundred years later, a collection of writings and letters by the apostles and their disciples.
participantOne:(695680-724320): So what do we have the first couple hundred years? We had the church's living tradition. The church's living tradition. If you look back and read the Gospels, you'll see that how did Jesus call his apostles and disciples? He said, follow me. Very normal for any rabbi of the day. If you look closely...
participantOne:(724540-756000): You see, whatever the rabbis did in the Jewish faith, Jesus was doing that same thing. Rabbis are supposed to start their missions about 30 years old. Jesus started about 30 years old. His disciples, he didn't say, read the scriptures and come back and I'll check you on it. He said, follow me, right? And when you follow your rabbi, you live with your rabbi, you learn by watching how your rabbi lives.
participantOne:(756780-787700): It was the same thing with Jesus and the apostles. He showed them everything that God liked to see in how people live. So the apostles passed on what they learned from Jesus or the living tradition by their preaching, by their writings, by the examples they gave, by the institutions they established. Institutions? What institutions did they? They had churches established.
participantOne:(788720-821600): all the bishops throughout the Gentile world and in Jerusalem and everywhere there was a church, there was a bishop or everywhere there was a bishop, there was a church. Kind of one goes with the other. The institutions were the individual churches as part of the whole church. Today, we have better defined tradition than we had back then. Better communications, a lot more history. Today, we have...
participantOne:(822280-857140): the church's doctrine as expressed by the magisterium by the doctors of the church by the example the saints have shown us common practices what's one of the common practices that's not in the old or new testament that we do all the time rosary is one sign of the cross sign of the cross is another how about mass we've been doing mass since the very beginning and when you look when you keep that in mind
participantOne:(857400-884040): and look throughout the New Testament, especially the letters, you'll see that when it comes to coming together and meeting, what they're talking about is Mass. We've been doing Mass since the very beginning, and it's not even in the Bible, so to speak. At least there's no, this is your checklist. A new extension alert has arrived.
participantOne:(884600-915900): Ah, it must be time to move on. Inspired. In addition to that, we have the feasts, feast days. We have sacred music and sacred art that's come down over the years to give a fuller expression of the heart of God. Number four, harmony of all God's revelation. You see that all this works together.
participantOne:(920140-953800): And then we come to the four senses of Scripture. And we'll get into detail on that later in the month, I think. But the four senses of Scripture I have listed as literal, which means, what does it say? Allegorical, that would be like the parables. We're using something that's familiar to explain something that's not easily understood. Then there's the moral sense. Moral sense.
participantOne:(955400-970840): Everybody knows what the moral sense is, right? Everybody knows what being moral is. I guess I should say it that way. Okay, yeah, how to live. So what's that last word you got? Antagogical.
participantOne:(971819-999500): So are we supposed to know what that means? Well, I figure everybody's got a phone and they can look it up if they don't know what it is. And we have tables in the back. We're going to be meeting in a minute. But I don't want to take up too much more of your time because you can get the discussions that we're going to have. It's on the back side of this. You'll see the second reading for tomorrow, Letter to the Hebrews. Wow.
participantOne:(1000880-1034100): You're not reading that? Have someone read it to you. And quite normally, all these readings that we have, they were meant to be read aloud. It engages more of your senses. It helps you understand to read it aloud. You don't necessarily have to fellow it out, but reading it aloud so your ears are hearing it as well does help. You might want to consider that. But this is written to the Hebrews.
participantOne:(1034839-1064780): These Hebrews are the ones living in Gentile land, up where Paul's churches are beginning. This letter is attributed to Paul as the author. There is some argument about that, but traditionally, and for most of the history of our church, it's been attributed to Paul. So that helps you out with number one, who the author is and what his intention is. So take a few minutes.
participantOne:(1065260-1085760): Go through Hebrews, get some coffee, get your body sugared up, more donuts. We've got all sorts of stuff here. And then we'll meet back at the tables and discuss. Any questions before I release the stage? How about the non-Catholic brethren thing that I get?
participantOne:(1085960-1103100): I'm not real red on the Bible, but they'll say, Jim, if it's not in the Bible, I don't want nothing to do with it. In other words, our Catholic tradition that we hold sacred, they don't buy that. They don't like that. That's true. I've heard that. If it's not in the Bible explicitly, it's no go with them.
participantOne:(1103340-1128280): We try to explain it to them, but, you know, because actually when Christ walked us, I don't have to tell you this, I don't know all this, but I tell them, when Christ walked earth, he didn't say, follow me and take a book and write all this down. He was going back to all nations and teach them what I have taught you. Later on, the Bible come into effect, of course. So that's the argument they use at me. If it's not in the Bible, forget it. It's no go with them.
participantOne:(1128800-1161640): I uh there's there's a few things that I'll sometimes use in response one of them is show me in the bible where it has to be in the bible you know um another thing you could talk about the hail mary every bit of that is in the bible and yet they claim it's not so if you want to argue then there are those options available if you want to enlighten that's usually better because
participantOne:(1162080-1194460): You know, when arguments start, there's no winners in that at all. So it's a lot better to, you know, maybe explain and correct if they're willing to hear it. But when somebody comes up with that kind of stuff, I find more often they want to argue, and less often do they really want to understand. Yeah? Yeah, one thing I would normally tell where it describes what the truth is,
participantOne:(1198340-1267820): but everybody strongly believes in the truth. Both sides of the same thing. Okay. I was just going to say a lot of that kind of background. I was there, and it took me all my help to find the Bible. Where did the Bible establish the stuff? When you say 66, books that are authority, who made the world serious about it? The stuff that was in heaven. It settled those questions. I always thought that the Catholics had added these extra seven books on
participantOne:(1268180-1305960): It wasn't until I started getting Catholics I found out, wait a minute, no, the only reason those folks had to take it out was because they were too Catholic. If the Protestants didn't like the Catholics, they were not there. So, you know, it took me probably five or six years to actually come up with a plan on it. Yeah, good thinking. Yeah, that's a good place where last week we reviewed Lectio Divina.
participantOne:(1307320-1337240): That's one of the places where one of the techniques you can use that really do help clarify some of these things. Because when your ear is ready, God is more than happy to explain it to you. Yes, Joseph. Well, another thing with that question, you can ask, does God give authority to books or does God give authority to persons in the Bible? Like, does he ever invest authority into books? Yes.
participantOne:(1337820-1360000): or does he invest in authority into people? If he invested authority into people, that's the mode in which he works. And so where is that authority now? Like who has received the authority from God that he's given or does that authority no longer exist?
participantOne:(1360720-1400020): I don't, I can't, maybe somebody else who knows more scripture than I do knows of a passage where God invests authority into a book. But I can't think of it. Deuteronomy is a graduate one. Yeah. They all are five. Yeah, okay. You know, the authorities at that time had to say, some people are still, but the book was established.
participantOne:(1412720-1471960): anyway. Yeah, they did find Deuteronomy, but it was still these people had authority. They were corrected by the book, but they had misused authority and then rightly used it. It's still the people who had the authority. Yeah. Yep. How do I choose? It was a... Yeah, there are... That's one of the things that also, as I looked into how did they... It was mainly the ones that were used
participantOne:(1475000-1491100): It went back to the mask. These are the ones in red, the public masks. Therefore, they have solid masks.
participantOne:(1493160-1520700): Yeah, so Chesterton has this really cool image, if I can share. It's like, if you're a man on the street and you see a parade, and it's a bunch of men in vestments, and some of them are holding candles, and some of them are swinging incense, and some of them are holding scrolls, and some of them are holding up a holy object, and some of them are holding a canopy, and some of them, they're holding scrolls and skulls and bones and all of this stuff.
participantOne:(1521220-1542000): The man on the street could be justified in saying, all of that is just pomp and rubbish. Or he could say, I see that and I respect it and I want to know more about it. But the position that he did not find tenable, Chesterton looking at this from the outside, was to say,
participantOne:(1542700-1571520): I reject all of those vestments. I reject the people with the pointy hats and the staffs. I reject the skulls. I reject the canopies. But those scrolls, I'm really interested in those. I'm going to keep those scrolls, and that's what I'm going to make the foundation of my religion. He's like, no, the books of the Bible were always part of the liturgy of the church. And to say, I can take those out,
participantOne:(1572220-1627160): and take them as if they're in a vacuum, that doesn't make any sense. That's good. You mentioned, John, that it took a couple hundred years up to that point. There was no New Testament. Right. Yeah. Right. Right. They still had the Torah. The first five books were there. But that's when the arguments with Paul and Peter started coming up like, what do we follow in the Torah and what don't we follow in the Torah?
participantOne:(1628540-1662480): Sounds like we're all well primed for our tables out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you want to give us time in silence with the scripture first? Yes. Okay. So let's... You got a question? I had a co-worker. He was a pastor. And I was just saying, same thing as the Bible. Some words, it's not answered in the Bible. Okay. Both Bibles, but they're different.
participantOne:(1663480-1694620): Okay. There's a lot of ways you can go about that. And this comment was about the St. James translation of the Bible. I'm sorry, King James? Yes. Excuse me, bad mispeak. Not enough coffee. But the King James version of the Bible. You can use the King James version of the Bible, and it does not disagree with the rest of Scripture. It's just short a few books.
participantOne:(1696520-1727960): If they want to use that version, there are better translations, but there are worse translations as well. The Holy Spirit, when you ask the Holy Spirit into your conversation, into studying the Bible, wanting to learn what God says, the Holy Spirit will lay it out. You don't have to be afraid of using someone else's Bible. If it's a Bible, it's a record of the Word of God
participantOne:(1730640-1758980): translated by whoever did it. King James in that version. We've had groups translate our more modern versions, but they're all good to use, just some are gooder. Okay on that we should probably take a moment. There is the second reading at everybody's table. If you don't have a copy maybe share.
participantOne:(1759280-1784680): And then we'll take maybe five, six minutes on our own. And then for a table discussion, we need some table discussion leaders. Anybody willing to volunteer? Brian is going to volunteer. Jonathan, Mark, Steve. That was four. It's nice to have a fifth to lead.
participantOne:(1785360-1796080): I'll leave the fifth table. So in about six minutes, we'll go back to small groups. But right now, you're on your own with the passage. All right? Thank you.
